I was reading the koran and also articles from Christian apologist and the issue that comes up in my mind is that I have read anything outside of the koran and the gospel of infancy that speaks about Jesus speaking from the cradle.
in these gospels Thomas in particular it says that Jesus killed a young guy because he bumped into him, does that sound like the sinless Jesus Christ?
this gospel is not trusted by Christians which is quite obvious but verses of it have found its way into the koran.
are there any Muslims that can explain why this is.
defendchrist 
i have a few questions.
1. was the hebrew in jobs time the same hebrew recorded in the torah?
2. is the hebrew in the torah FROM a different time and NOT the HEBREW from jobs time?
………………………..
“there are no manuscripts of the Bible prior to 250 BCE
Moses wrote Genesis around 1500 BCE, but there is no trace of it until around 100 BCE, then that is about 1400 years of the “disappearance” of Genesis from our archaeological record.”
is the hebrew IN TODAYS bible THE SAME as the hebrew which was in 1500 bce?
in english there is OLD english, middle english and NEW english
i guess the same applies for every other language. each century will see NEW definitions , new PRONOUNCIATIONS , MERGING OF letters ect.
WERE THE jews PRESERVING STORIES in a hebrew FOUND IN A LATER TIME?
Hey
Jesus speaking from the cradle is from the gospel of thomas…infancy of Christ.
It is interesting that this book says Jesus murdered a kid because he bumped into him.
Jesus is meant to be sinless right?
So how can you say the words are from Allah when the actual event was written a false gospel at 400 before Muhammad came?
The same book says Jesus blew life into clay birds another story that is your koran.
So these stories are around hundreds of years before.
Taken from a book that says Jesus commited murder.
And mansubzero why are you questioning the period that the O.T. was written?
If it is not true why look for Muhammad in there
NOTICE you completely AVOIDED answering my questions. i ask you AGAIN, WAS THE HEBREW 1500BCE THE SAME HEBREW FOUND IN TODAYS BIBLES? we have OLD ENGLISH, MIDDLE ENGLISH AND NEW ENGLISH. LETTERS GET MERGED , EXAMPLE , THE HA AND KHA IN HEBREW GOT MERGED. THE NOON SAKIN IS LOST IN THE WORD “BAT” ARABIC STILL HAS IT “BINT” and hebrew still has it in BANOOT in arabic banaat. so IS THE hebrew in the bible written in a different hebrew from the UNKNOWN one in 1500bce.
“And mansubzero why are you questioning the period that the O.T. was written?”
you BELIEVE IN ALL THE STORIES IN THE ot, right? ALL of them, right?
so i ask you, WHEN the stories WERE FIRST written what kind of hebrew were they in?
when they were first told, what kind of hebrew where they in? surely not the hebrew found in todays bibles because like i said , just like all languages language will CHANGE.
“And mansubzero why are you questioning the period that the O.T. was written?”
because i want to show you your double standards
i am speaking in 18th century ENGLISH IN THE 18TH century
i report my story , but do not WRITE it down. written RECORD of my story is found in 19th CENTURY english. is 19th century english the same as 18th century english?
“If it is not true why look for Muhammad in there”
no skills in hebrew so i have NO RIGHT TO look for muhammad in there.
Hi Mansubzero
You have no skills of knowledge of Hebrew but you are asking me questions just stick to the subject of Jesus speaking from the cradle.
“Taken from a book that says Jesus commited murder.”
IF you witnessed a girl rubbing oil in my feet with her hair and then i said to her that she did a beautiful thing, what would you say to me?
“Taken from a book that says Jesus commited murder.”
jesus may have commited many things which the gospel writers did not include in thier accounts. think about it, do you think they would record every story about jesus in their accounts?
matthew:
8 When Jesus came down from the mountainside, large crowds followed him. 2 A man with leprosy[a] came and knelt before him and said, “Lord, if you are willing, you can make me clean.”
3 Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” Immediately he was cleansed of his leprosy. 4 Then Jesus said to him, “See that you don’t tell anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the gift Moses commanded, as a testimony to them.”
luke:
13 Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” And immediately the leprosy left him.
14 Then Jesus ordered him, “Don’t tell anyone, but go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.”
mark:
40A man with leprosyh came to him and begged him on his knees, “If you are willing, you can make me clean.”
41Jesus was indignant.i He reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” 42Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cleansed.
43Jesus sent him away at once with a strong warning: 44“See that you don’t tell this to anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.” 45Instead he went out and began to talk freely, spreading the news. As a result, Jesus could no longer enter a town openly but stayed outside in lonely places. Yet the people still came to him from everywhere.
STRONGS definition for “sent him away”
ekballo: I throw, cast, put out, banish, bring forth, produce
Original Word: ἐκβάλλω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: ekballo
Phonetic Spelling: (ek-bal’-lo)
Short Definition: I throw, cast, put out, banish, bring forth, produce
Definition: I throw (cast, put) out; I banish; I bring forth, produce.
http://biblesuite.com/thayers/1544.htm
12Jesus entered the temple courts and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves. 13“It is written,” he said to them, “ ‘My house will be called a house of prayer,’e but you are making it ‘a den of robbers.’f ”
same word is used for “drove out”
you can’t imagine jesus pushing someone because you are immersed in flesh worship, but mark did imagine a jesus who could shove someone in a forcefull way even if that someone were an innocent leper with a disease.
You don’t have a clue what you talking about there are words in the koran that are not even Arabic stop wasting time trying to find fault with Christianity. The Muslims have trying these for years and you are nowhere near since the first day you started.
If you have an issue with Hebrew and the type of Hebrew used when writing the scriptures speak to a Jew…I’m not a Jew.
I was speaking about the scripture in the koran that says Jesus spoke from the cradle
This was written in a false gospel hundreds of years before Muhammad came along that is what I am talking about.
Jesus was sinless right?
You have Jesus making birds out of clay and breathing into them….in the koran and the l gospel of Thomas
You have Jesus speaking from the cradle…in the koran and the gospel of Thomas
Jesus killed a boy because he bumped into him….in the gospel of Thomas.
None of these scriptures are in the bible.
i see that now you have received a very bad electrical shock. you still CANNOT see your DOUBLE standards so i will TRY once again
i quote
“there are no manuscripts of the Bible prior to 250 BCE
Moses wrote Genesis around 1500 BCE, but there is no trace of it until around 100 BCE, then that is about 1400 years of the “disappearance” of Genesis from our archaeological record.”
the hebrews were passing stories to each other by oral communication BEFORE writing existed.
moses WROTE genesis. the STORY got copied and copied
we don’t have ANY manuscripts until around 1400 years later
you believe each and every story in the ot
but scholars can SEE in the bible DIFFERENT hebrew from DIFFERENT centuries.
what hebrew was in genesis when it first was written? we don’t know
what hebrew was it copied in ? scholars say DEFINIATELY not the hebrew moses alledgely wrote in
so stories were preserved in a different hebrew from a different time
do you agree? surely not all prophets spoke in hebrew but prehebrew language, right?
“Jesus was sinless right?”
no. according to the torah , jesus was a sinner.
i’ll return after 3 weeks. answer the questions
1. do you believe that the stories in genesis are all true?
2. was the hebrew in todays torah the same in moses’ time?
3. how do you know when you don’t have any manuscripts going back to 1500bce?
According to the koran Jesus was sinless so why does the koran have stories taken out of a book rejected by the church that says Jesus committed murder.
Hi defendchrist, I think I know your problem: you believe, willy nilly, that the infancy of Jesus as related in the Qur’an must have been gleaned from the Gospel attributed to Thomas. I believe you were led to this conclusion because of the quite evident similarity between the two narratives. However, similarity between two texts or ideas do not necessarily imply that one was borrowed from the other. It could imply,anyway. There is however, another equally likely implication; That both texts or ideas were obtained from a common source. If we have to accept the former, then we could easily accuse Christianity of borrowing:
1) The crucifixion and blood atonement from Dionysus and his cult.
2)The Trinity from ancient pagan trinities such as the Egyptian one.
3) Even the idea of a long awaited Messiah must have been stolen from Jewish writings, we might say.
Obviously, you would complain, indeed some Christian apologists do, that all these ancient cultures foreshadowed the truth of the Christian beliefs.This brings us to the latter implication; Both ideas were obtained from a common source. This is what Muslims have said for 15 centuries. One GOD sent down all Scripture.
Now, it is a Christian claim, that the original copies of the New Testament are no longer with us. Therefore, modern critical editions are based on imperfectly written and often divergent manuscripts. Moreover, the writings that came to be included in the New Testament weren’t even considered Scripture in the first two centuries of Christian era. Muslims, therefore approach these writings with extreme caution, especially since the Gospels were anonymously authored. The four Gospels of the current new testament are given an aura of suspicion, since neither Jesus nor his disciples appear to have defined the borders of the new testament. The council of Niceae did. Even after that, disputes arose as late as Martin Luther King’s era concerning the canonicity of the book of revelations,James,Jude,etc( I.e the six disputed books).
Evidence of theologically motivated interpolations in the manuscripts leads Muslims to believe that Christians had the tendency of altering what they considered as God’s word to say what they wanted it to say. Hence, the familiar assertion: “Your Bible is corrupted”.
There is no reason to believe therefore, that parts of the Gospel attributed to Thomas, just like the anonymously written canonical Gospels, is definitely corrupted. Even more corrupted than the canonical ones, since they would not be protected, as they were not included in your Canon. In conclusion, the Qur’an, indeed Islam, has never claimed that the so-called Gospel of Thomas is 100% God’s word, neither has it claimed that the canonical ones are 100% God’s word. It, however, bears witness that these writings contain partial truths.
Wassalam.
Hi
My problem is Muslims lying about the bible and following a book that doesn’t even know how to start and finish a story.
The infancy gospel of Thomas says that Jesus committed murder it is obvious that the writer is not inspired by God as Jesus never sinned…correct me if I am wrong.
Peace be upon you. From my previous comment, I made it clear that Islam has never claimed that The gospel attributed to Thomas(as well as the canonical gospels) was inspired by Allah/God. Please read my previous comment and focus on the last bit.
Please re-read my previous comment carefully. It explains Islam’s position concerning early Christian writings (both canonical and non-canonical).